[fedora-virt] Do we need the Fedora 'virt' mailing list?

Discussion:

Richard W.M. Jones

2015-09-16 11:45:28 UTC

Crickets ... https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/virt/

The virt list has long been in an odd place. Fedora has best in class
virt support, because so many virt developers use it. It also follows
upstream very closely, with upstream packages like libvirt and qemu
going straight into Rawhide without any significant patching.

So there isn't really much need for a Fedora+virt-specific list, since
almost any question should go upstream to one of the following lists:

- https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/virt-tools-list
- https://libvirt.org/contact.html#email
- http://wiki.qemu.org/MailingLists
- https://libosinfo.org/communicate/
- https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/libguestfs

Or as a last resort if it really is a rare virt integration issue that
only affects to Fedora, then:

- https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
- https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Can we kill the virt list?

Rich.

--
Richard Jones, Virtualization Group, Red Hat http://people.redhat.com/~rjones
Read my programming and virtualization blog: http://rwmj.wordpress.com
virt-df lists disk usage of guests without needing to install any
software inside the virtual machine. Supports Linux and Windows.
http://people.redhat.com/~rjones/virt-df/

Daniel P. Berrange

2015-09-16 12:20:49 UTC

Permalink

Post by Richard W.M. Jones
Crickets ... https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/virt/
The virt list has long been in an odd place. Fedora has best in class
virt support, because so many virt developers use it. It also follows
upstream very closely, with upstream packages like libvirt and qemu
going straight into Rawhide without any significant patching.
So there isn't really much need for a Fedora+virt-specific list, since
- https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/virt-tools-list
- https://libvirt.org/contact.html#email
- http://wiki.qemu.org/MailingLists
- https://libosinfo.org/communicate/
- https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/libguestfs
Or as a last resort if it really is a rare virt integration issue that
- https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
- https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Can we kill the virt list?

At this point in time, I'd say yes.

FWIW, a little history.... many moons ago during development of the
Fedora Core 5 release, we created a fedora-***@redhat.com mailing
list. Virtualization was all new and shiny and a total pain to actually
get running and develop against. So the fedora-xen mailing list was
useful to avoid deluging other mailing lists with Xen related topics.
Later when KVM came along, we created a fedora-virt mailing list, so
we didn't tie discussions just to Xen. These later moved from redhat.com
to fedoraproject.org mailman. The ***@lists.fedoraproject.org mailing
list actually still exists too, and has even less traffic than virt one!

Fast-forward 10 years.... virtualization is mainstream, almost seemlessly
integrated in Fedora, pretty much everyone knows about it and can get
it working with little effort. Thus the original rationale for having the
Fedora virt mailing list has pretty much gone away IMHO. There's no reason
not to just use the main Fedora developer/user mailing lists, and/or the
appropriate project upstream lists at this point.

Regards,
Daniel

--
|: http://berrange.com -o- http://www.flickr.com/photos/dberrange/ :|
|: http://libvirt.org -o- http://virt-manager.org :|
|: http://autobuild.org -o- http://search.cpan.org/~danberr/ :|
|: http://entangle-photo.org -o- http://live.gnome.org/gtk-vnc :|

Jon Ingason

2015-09-16 12:28:10 UTC

Permalink

Post by Daniel P. Berrange

At this point in time, I'd say yes.
FWIW, a little history.... many moons ago during development of the
list. Virtualization was all new and shiny and a total pain to actually
get running and develop against. So the fedora-xen mailing list was
useful to avoid deluging other mailing lists with Xen related topics.
Later when KVM came along, we created a fedora-virt mailing list, so
we didn't tie discussions just to Xen. These later moved from redhat.com
list actually still exists too, and has even less traffic than virt one!
Fast-forward 10 years.... virtualization is mainstream, almost seemlessly
integrated in Fedora, pretty much everyone knows about it and can get
it working with little effort. Thus the original rationale for having the
Fedora virt mailing list has pretty much gone away IMHO. There's no reason
not to just use the main Fedora developer/user mailing lists, and/or the
appropriate project upstream lists at this point.
Regards,
Daniel

Yes, I agree that we can kill this list.

--
Regards

Jon Ingason

Daniel P. Berrange

2015-09-16 12:33:26 UTC

Permalink

Post by Daniel P. Berrange

At this point in time, I'd say yes.

BTW, in case there was any doubt ...by 'kill the virt list', I would
expect that we set all existing subscribers to moderated, and set any
postings to get the get an auto-reply suggesting they use one of the
alternative lists Rich suggests above. We'd also turn off ability to
subscribe. The list would still actually exist, such that we preserve
the archives forever. IOW, we just disable use of the list but don't
delete it.

Regards,
Daniel

Cole Robinson

2015-09-16 14:08:57 UTC

Permalink

Post by Daniel P. Berrange

At this point in time, I'd say yes.

Yeah I've thought similar for a long while too. So I'm for it. I'll leave a
bit more time for discussion but if nothing changes I'll close the list next week.

- Cole

Richard W.M. Jones

2015-09-23 17:27:09 UTC

Permalink

Post by Cole Robinson

Post by Daniel P. Berrange

At this point in time, I'd say yes.

Yeah I've thought similar for a long while too. So I'm for it. I'll leave a
bit more time for discussion but if nothing changes I'll close the list next week.

One week - do you want to close the list or should I? Dan suggested a
method to use here:

https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/virt/2015-September/004295.html

I was also interested in whether any web pages reference this list. I
think just these ones:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Virtualization#News
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Virtualization_Preview_Repository#Contact
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-virt
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Virtualization/News

Rich.

--
Richard Jones, Virtualization Group, Red Hat http://people.redhat.com/~rjones
Read my programming and virtualization blog: http://rwmj.wordpress.com
Fedora Windows cross-compiler. Compile Windows programs, test, and
build Windows installers. Over 100 libraries supported.
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MinGW

Cole Robinson

2015-09-23 17:29:44 UTC

Permalink

Post by Richard W.M. Jones

Post by Cole Robinson

Post by Daniel P. Berrange

At this point in time, I'd say yes.

Yeah I've thought similar for a long while too. So I'm for it. I'll leave a
bit more time for discussion but if nothing changes I'll close the list next week.

One week - do you want to close the list or should I? Dan suggested a

It's on my list but I might not get to it today, so go for it

Post by Richard W.M. Jones
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/virt/2015-September/004295.html
I was also interested in whether any web pages reference this list. I
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Virtualization#News
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Virtualization_Preview_Repository#Contact
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-virt
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Virtualization/News

I don't think it's in any man pages or anything, so that looks right to me

Thanks,
Cole

Richard W.M. Jones

2015-09-23 17:30:38 UTC

Permalink

Post by Richard W.M. Jones
One week - do you want to close the list or should I? Dan suggested a
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/virt/2015-September/004295.html

The xen@ one should probably go too.

Rich.

--
Richard Jones, Virtualization Group, Red Hat http://people.redhat.com/~rjones
Read my programming and virtualization blog: http://rwmj.wordpress.com
libguestfs lets you edit virtual machines. Supports shell scripting,
bindings from many languages. http://libguestfs.org

Cole Robinson

2015-09-23 17:32:02 UTC

Permalink

Post by Richard W.M. Jones
One week - do you want to close the list or should I? Dan suggested a
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/virt/2015-September/004295.html

Rich.

There's a few xen devs on that mailing list, I figured I'd leave it up to
them. And if they wanted to keep it going, hand off maintenance to them.
Haven't asked yet though

- Cole

W. Michael Petullo

2015-09-23 19:40:01 UTC

Permalink

Post by Cole Robinson

Post by Richard W.M. Jones
One week - do you want to close the list or should I? Dan suggested a
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/virt/2015-September/004295.html

There's a few xen devs on that mailing list, I figured I'd leave it up to
them. And if they wanted to keep it going, hand off maintenance to them.
Haven't asked yet though

I occasionally find the Xen list very useful, mainly because Michael
Young is so helpful. For this reason, the Xen list has in the past been
a good place to bring up issues that arise as Fedora and Xen are updated.

--
Mike

:wq